have to go to dr. brennan. what did you make of the picture we saw in the courtroom of james holmes. did he give you any indication he had a problem? >> well, chris, it's very difficult to tell from a picture. we don't know a lot about him. i haven't interviewed him. certainly the things that stand out, of course, is the red hair, which may be symbolic at the time police picked him up and the joker. and his eyes. right away looking at his eyes looks different from other pictures. we immediately suspect the possibility of some type of drug abuse. >> would he have access to drugs or be in withdrawal or what do you mean at this point? >> some drugs are long acting. certainly he may still be under the influence of some drug at a later date or may have been given drugs in jail to calm him down. if he has a major mental disorder he may have a major tranquilizer in his system to calm down and deal with the dilution. those drugs give one the appearance of being wide eyed or

like we saw in court, drowsy, lethargic, falling asleep. >> let's get to the arapahoe county sheriff's office release add booking photo for james holmes. there's that look. can you see that right now? can you see that dr. brennan. >> i do not have it on a monitor but i can see the picture. >> wide eyed, almost affectless. what do you make of that shot? what does that tell you? almost nonemotional, i guess you'd say. >> again, it's different from his other pictures we've seen previously of this well man toured, good looking young man. now we have this kind of wild eyed look. that may be suggestive of mental health problems. but more likely again think about the use of some illicit substance or abuse of prescription medication to give that type of appearance. >> let's go to corbin dates, a witness in the second row of that theater. thank you for joining us tonight. what did you feel when you saw the picture of that guy in court today, corbin, james holmes.

>> i'd say as soon as i was watching the trial on cnn today, i felt completely numb. i felt no emotion whatsoever when i was looking at the face of the gunman. >> did he look dangerous to you? did he remind you of what you saw in the theater? >> honestly, looking at his face, he looked like an average person that you would see probably at a mall or anywhere common. you would not put two and two together if you saw that person and if you were there that night. you would never know. >> compare him to what you saw, the two gentlemen, whatever you saw, compare him to what you saw in the theater the night that everything went horribly. >> the night in the theater, as soon as the door swung open and the person in black walked into the theater, this person had a stroll like he knew what was going on, like he knew what was supposed to happen, like it was supposed to be a walk in the park and he was going to have a good time. that's what it looked like. >> is there any way you can connect the two?

can you identify him as that guy, the one who killed the 12 people and injured, wounded so many others, dozens of others. >> i couldn't have identified him. the person, the gunman was dressed in black. you could not see anything. the only thing available to see was only his eyes. >> how did you survive by the way? glad you did, sir, meeting you now. i'm glad anybody survived that scene. the assailant moving with an automatic weapon. tell me about the weapon. what kind of gun was he shooting? >> seemed like he was shooting a semiautomatic rifle. it wasn't anything rapid-fire but continuous single shots. after the shots they immediately went off after the gas canister he threw into the audience. i immediately went to the floor along with my friend. in ten seconds i decided i needed to crawl my way out. >> how did you know -- how did you get behind him? he was moving up the aisle and you were bear crawling underneath the chairs? how did you do it?

>> sitting in the second aisle, he threw a canister into the audience. two seconds going off he started firing his rifle. at that point i was already on the ground. i started walking my way towards the opposite side of the auditorium. it was still dark. there was smoke everywhere and the film did not stop playing until 15 seconds. it was pitch black inside. >> was he moving the projection on the movie screen, the batman movie itself for lighting as he identified and shot and killed many of them. >> i'm sorry. i couldn't understand the question. could you ask again? >> was the only light in the theater being projected on the screen? >> that's correct. the movie being projected on the screen was the only light that was there, plus the lights in the back far hallways that would lead you out to the lobby. other than that everything in between was pitch black. >> hold on, corbin, let me go back to dr. brannon. i'm a movie buff, i hope everybody remains a movie buff

because i love them, the experience of going to a theater. here is the question, i saw "minority reports" sci-fi movie that said you can catch people ahead of time, find their projection into the future. i know that's the sci-fi part. is there any way in real life to figure out a guy like this ahead of time. >> prediction is difficult, because not a lot of people do these behaviors. in psychology we talk about the base rate being low. we don't know a lot about these kinds of people. we know in general what increases risk potential and causes people to be more dangerous. we don't know specifically what causes people to do this kind of behavior. >> so for all the people categorized as psychotic, psychopathic, lots of them out there, we don't know what it takes to take them from a private hell of confusion and anger to activity that's horrible. we don't know what triggers that, right? >> we do know a number of

different factors. like for instance someone who is a psychopath and has no connection or remorse or empathy with other people. we do know people who use drugs and alcohol have a higher rate of behaviors. people delusional, a small percentage of mentalillness, delusional types may well be so paranoid they engage in these types of behaviors. may be a neurological condition, someone have a brain tumor undiscovered for a long period of time that would cause these types of seemingly behaviors. >> how do you put with high competence, this crime looks to be organized very well by perhaps a single individual, we don't know, seems like it. here is a guy who held the door open, knew he was going out of the theater, an alley there, knew nobody would be watching, where to get the weapon, how many he could fire. a lot of competence goes into that. how do you put together the

competence of a criminal and mental illness. >> the overwhelming number of individuals with mental illness are not dangerous. the small numbers that are, not all mental illness lead to disorganization. some with mental illness like paranoid schizophrenia can plan, organize, think of things months in advance and even plan escape routes. not all mental illness has disorganization and inability to plano. >> how about the guy we saw in court. could that guy already be thinking through an insanity defense, his behavior, acting it out? >> chris, it's always possible someone does something called malingering, purposeful exaggeration of symptoms for secondary gain. it's possible. it's very difficult to do. less than 1% of all cases that go to trial use the insanity defense. most of them, over three-quarters of them are unsuccessful. so it's not a defense oftentimes

used or successful. >> what has he got. >> we don't know. >> presumption of innocence in a case so graphic as this. let me go back quickly to corbin dates. was there one or two people involved. i've heard you thought there might have been two, not just one. >> i couldn't speculate. the way from what i saw prior to before the gunman walked in, acted out, seemed like two. i couldn't speculate, i don't know what what happened before -- >> i think you told one of our producers you saw the person going out of the theater -- whoever came back in, the one that went out had a goatee. >> yes. >> go ahead. >> that's correct. prior to the movie even starting when i came and got my seat at the theater, a guy walked into the auditorium and sat in the first right row, got a phone call, took his phone call towards the emergency exit and not the lobby and had his foot propped open by the door. seems like he was making gestures trying to find somebody

or have somebody come to his location where he currently was. after that i had stepped out of the auditorium to bring my friend in. after that, the guy was gone, the door closed. >> you'll testify to that in court? >> yes. >> glad you got through it. doctor, sounds good everything you said. yes the second amendment guarantees the right to bear arm and we know what the founding fathers meant, a musket. did they mean assault rifles, magazines. any right between owning a gun and public safety. one day after joe paterno's statue was wrapped up, taken away, the ncaa puts a hammer to the football program guaranteeing it won't be competitive in the big ten or anywhere else for a long while. is it enough. more republicans criticizes michele bachmann, good guys, good people for indefensible attack on muslim americans

generally. the republican party, the old good republican party is coming out and saying enough, enough of this attacking people because of their ethnic backgrounds. remember, this moment for the 2004 republican national convention. >> i wish i was over there. i wish we lived in the day where you could challenge a person to a duel. >> that was an unforgettable moment. he's from georgia, i'm from philly, never met a guy like it. he says he regrets having made a challenge to a duel to this lonely fellow sitting here. this is "hardball," the place for politics. has helped fund economic and environmental recovery. long-term, bp's made a five hundred million dollar commitment to support scientists studying the environment. and the gulf is open for business - the beaches are beautiful, the seafood is delicious. last year, many areas even reported record tourism seasons. the progress continues... but that doesn't mean our job is done. we're still committed to seeing this through.

if you think this presidential campaign looks a lot like 2004 race, consider this. new polling from gallop puts president obama's approval rating to george w. bush than any other recent president. obama's approval rating for his 14th quarter in office averages out to 46.8. 46.8. that puts him a hair under where

george w. bush was at this point in his presidency at 47.9. bush, of course, beat john kerry in a close race to win his second term. he won by 3 million votes. we'll be right back. ust too har" then there was a moment. when i decided to find a way to keep going. go for olympic gold and go to college too. [ male announcer ] every day we help students earn their bachelor's or master's degree for tomorrow's careers. this is your moment. let nothing stand in your way. devry university, proud to support the education of our u.s. olympic team. is now within your grasp with the e-trade 360 investing dashboard. e-trade 360 is the world's first investing homepage that shows you where all your investments are and what they're doing with free streaming quotes, news, analysis and even your trade ticket. everything exactly the way you want it, all on one page.

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welcome back to "hardball." the shooting rampage in colorado seared in our mind, names like virginia tech, jonesboro, arkansas, columbine. these tragedies never lead to tougher gun control ever. a horrific incident, gun control advocates plead their case, make noise for a while and the issue fades away. tom's son daniel was killed in the columbine shooting 13 years ago. since then he's become a gun control advocate founding the group cease-fire colorado. mark halperin is in touch with politics, an msnbc senior analyst. i can only have sympathy for

you, sir, i can't imagine the loss of a son. that stays with you every moment of your life. why does the need for gun control -- i remember the first time i wrote a congressman, my life was when johnny carson said write your commongressman. the only time he ever asked, after the kennedy. >> one person to the next, they don't see one single solution to the problem. they see there's not been action and assume nothing can happen because of the gun laws. >> you think if everybody could vote online, everybody could vote over 18, would we have gun control if we had a plebiscite, do you believe that? >> i think if you have a measured action, we did that in colorado. we put to close the gun show

loophole in colorado after clom columbine when legislature wouldn't do it we did it. 70% a prostate. why? easier for the gun lobby to buy, bully and badger 51 out of 100 legislators than it is to get to all the voters in colorado. give them something reasonable. >> let me go to mark halperin, my colleague. i heard recently, young people who can vote 18 to 21, they are more for gun rights than elders. this is not moving in the gun control direction, mark. >> first, mr. mauser, sorry for your loss. we're thinking about the victims and families wounded in that. that human element is compelling to a lot of people. if you walk around on a coast certainly in washington, new york, boston, los angeles, san francisco, people will look at this human tragedy and say we

need gun control. but the public opinion, as chris just said, is on one side. it is not moving in the direction of greater gun control, moving in the other direction. the intensity remains for voters. i think if you look at well meaning people, not necessarily post columbine in colorado, well meaning people who tried to form away the brady campaign and others to pass more laws that would regulate firearms in one way or another their legislative strategy, grassroots has been a failure. people who want to move in that direction need to think of longer terms way to change public opinion. legislators aren't just afraid of gun lobby but afraid of what public opinion is on this issue. >> i'm from pennsylvania originally. you can't be for gun control statewide in pennsylvania. your goose is cooked. this true back to joe clark in the '60s. you come out for gun control,

you lose the next election for senator. that's the way it works. >> i'm original from pennsylvania myself also, the pittsburgh area. have you a lot of00ers. you can talk to those hunters and you ask them, do they think they need an assault weapon to shoot a deer. of course not. you can them if there are reasonable things can you do. again, you have to present people with a reasonable measure like we did in colorado. the problem is so often this debate comes down to are you pro gun or anti-gun, for the second amendment or against it. there's a lot of gray in between. >> let me tell you where it's not in between. mr. mauser we've been talking tonight about a gunman who may well have used a semiautomatic rifle with 100 round clip in it. with that we've been reading you can shoot off one a second. in a sitting duck situation you can potentially shoot or kill 50 to 60 people in a minute. now, most people would say that's not a hunting rifle. they say certainly not something james madison or ben franklin was thinking about, it's a

frightening weapon that could take on a whole regiment of british soldiers or continentals. unimaginable. all these old guys, we've got to go by original intent. does anybody think ben franklin was thinking get people the right to carry any kind of firepower they can put on their shoulder? of course he wasn't thinking that. he had no imagination for something existing, i don't think. i think it's reasonable. what do you think? >> that's right. that's why in this political environment here in colorado, we're going to have to ask those people who are running for office, are you okay with 100 bullet clip? is that reasonable to you? do you support that? we're going to hear all the excuses but we have to put that question to them. because i think most reasonable people will say this is insanity. when are we going to start looking at how other nations don't allow this. >> no, they don't. mark, let's look at this and react to this, mark halperin. how they have changed in the last 20 years on the issue of gun control.

1990, 78%, four out of five americans told gallop gun control should be stricter, four out of five. less strict four to one. say the same. 2010, those numbers are very different. with only 44% of americans saying laws should be stricter, less than half. there you see a decline mr. mauser, despite your life goes on and on, the graphic shows people lost zeal for gun control. >> chris, the graph doesn't include the intensity. anyone in politics will tell you, people who are gun voters tend to be overwhelmingly, the people intense boit, vote on that issue, tend to be people who don't want gun control. again, i'm describing what i think is, not what ought to be. i should be clear about that the assault weapon is the clearest case, uphill fooilt fight people who want stricter gun laws face. you made out the case for the

assault weapon. that's been around a long time. we've seen other shootings with assault weapons. we all know that's not intended for hunting. yet you don't see barack obama or hillary clinton when she ran for president or john edwards when he ran for president or joe biden when he ran for president, none of them were out there championing an assault weapon ban. it's dead in congress right now because of public opinion. again, i'll say the well meaning people trying to change the debate on this have spent time and some resources overwhelmed by resources on the other side trying to change it and they haven't. >> last word, tom. >> frankly, i think people have given up in this country. it's clear we go from one strategy to the next. i think people have simply given up. they have seen nothing has been done by political leaders, they see the power of the gun lobby and they have given up. they don't look at the reality that other free nations don't have this problem.

it's shameful the level we have, the level of gun violence and yet we do nothing. those other countries have done something. can you argue those nations are not free? are they somehow less free than us? there's a lot more concern for the individual. >> my brother is a gun guy and i'll tell you there are people who say they don't wan to live in europe because of that. there are gun voters out there as mark points out, who vote primarily on gun rights. that is their voting issue. the thing is there are only a few people like you, tom, for whom gun control is their primary concern. there just aren't as many people on that side. >> i agree. >> thank you so much. >> that is the problem. >> when we bring this subject up, we want you back. thank you. mark halperin, you nailed it. up next, do you remember this? >> i wish we lived in the day where you could challenge a person to a duel. >> well, the man there has some thoughts about our interview eight years ago. that's coming up.

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for the side show, what a side show it is. when you think of the duo of zell miller from georgia and me, i'm guessing it comes down to one conversation. let's look bag at our exchange after his fiery keynote address at the 2004 republican convention when he suggested john kerry would arm u.s. forces with spit balls. here is a look at my follow-up to this speech. >> you believe, senator, truthfully, that john kerry wants to defend the country with spit balls. you believe that? >> that was a metaphor, wasn't it? you know what a metaphor is. he certainly doesn't want to defend with b1 or b2 or jet.

i think we ought to cancel this interview. >> that would be my loss, senator. >> you're hopeless. i wish i was over there. i wish we lived in the day where you could challenge a person to a duel. now, that would be pretty good. >> that was my laughing actually. anyway, challenge to a duel. zell miller was a former senator. he underwent a massive change in views and supported the election. according to the atlanta general constitution he terrible. i embarrassed myself. i'd rather it had not happened. miller has taken a back seat in the political scene in res enyears. finally, there's been no shortage of republicans blasting president obama for not believing in american exceptionalism. which i believe on. what has the president done to bring on attacks. recent issue of new york magazine did digging and paired

up what we've heard from the president with what republicans have thrown at him. take a listen. >> michelle and i had the chance to succeed beyond our wildest dreams. we're only here because somebody passed on this incredible notion, this exceptional american idea that it doesn't matter where you come from. >> those in the white house today don't believe -- they don't believe in american exceptionalism. >> if you for american exceptionalism you're us, for socialism, radicalism you're with president obama. >> my entire has been exceptionalism. >> i don't see that same level of willingness to assert that the united states is, indeed, exceptional. >> the united states has been and will always be the one in

dispensable nation in world affairs. one of the examples why america is exceptional. >> i'm convinced he wants americans to be ashamed of success. >> what makes us exceptional, what makes us great is not just how many skyscrapers we have, not how powerful our military is. what makes us special is this idea that in this country if you are willing to work hard, if you're willing to take responsibility for your own life, then you can make it if you try. >> that's why pple like this guy. anyway, see what i mean? it's part of the never ending effort to convince americans out there that the president is some combination of foreign ideas, socialism and other-ness. a list of that crap goes on and on. you heard him. let him speak for himself, ladies and gentlemen. up next penn state gets strict sanctions. they are tough after the jerry

sandusky rape scandal. did the punishment go far enough? you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. [ male announcer ] fight pepperoni heartburn and pepperoni breath fast with tums freshers! concentrated relief that goes to work in seconds and freshens breath. ♪ tum...tum...tum...tum... tums! ♪ [ male announcer ] tums freshers. fast relief, fresh breath,

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>> back to "hardball," the end of an era in a place known as happy valley. tough punishments handed down to penn state. the statue of a hero to many joe paterno wrapped up, taken down and hauled away. today the school heard their punishment. while they are allowed to play football, they aren't allowed to go to bowl games among several other tough eaddicts. this afternoon the paterno family slammed them from issuing the sanctions based on the louis freeh report. they said they, quote, defame the legacy and contributions of a great coach, they say, the family, and educator without any input from our family or those who knew them best. that's what the paterno family

said of the school had done something different. this afternoon i spoke with buzz about the approval of the statue and sanctions against the university. he's the author of "father's day" and a sports columnist for "the daily beast." buzz, what did you think when you saw those pictures of the statue of joe paterno at penn state shrouded up and hauled away in the night, yesterday when no one was supposed to be watching. >> it was a little bit weird but frankly, i think they had to do it. i have to admit, i sort of felt the pang of sadness about the whole thing. if joe basically had made one phone call, one phone call, all this would have been different. he did not, he ignored. i think the university had to take that statue down. i think they did the right thing. it was a little bit surreal but it's gone. you couldn't have fans walking by and seeing that smiling face. >> yeah, you can't have a guy

who historically placed there who has been known to have covered up child rape. that's what it looked like the university was doing there all the way up the line. let me ask you the ncaa punishments exacted today. no bowl games for four years. paterno's victories, 111 of them ripped from the record book, completely gone. he's not the number one winner anymore. shrinkage in scholarships, can't win big ten. a big fine of $60 million. is that enough? it's a lot? >> it was a lot. i was surprised. i have to give ncaa chops. i wondered if they would do anything. frankly i recommended two-year ban. this is much, much tougher. that program basically has been deflowered. they are going to be on their back longer than the four-year ban issuements of bowl games. kids are not going to go. they are not going to be able to compete. i think the ncaa did the right thing. they said your football culture

was so entrenched. this is so egregious, the most egregious thing we've ever seen that we have to take drastic action. granted, there was a lot of public pressure on them but i think they did the right thing. yes, it's draconian, it's tough, but i think it's merited. they will still play football so the shop keepers and vendors will make money off penn state. they will make this. i'll tell you this, there won't be 110,000 people going to football games. they are going to be terrible. >> are the people who go up there to happy valley sunday morning, i've been in that crowd there, that incredible ride up the hill to get there, where everything is about winning and the big ten, are they going to understand as they go to games and lose games they used to win, are they going to understand because a revered coach and other authorities at their revered institution covered up a rape? are they going to get it? >> i think it's a great question. frankly, no, they won't get it. i think they get it now. the minute the football season

starts -- i was on the penn state athletic website today. right at the top in the right-hand corner, 40 days, 12 hours and 13 minutes until the opener against ohio university. they won't get it. the minute they sit in that stadium and the minute they start loseing to traditional rivals like ohio state, they are going to say, you know what, we got screwed. this is unfair. this is the actions of the few. they won't understand the extent of the cover-up and why the ncaa had to do what they had to do to be an enforcement body which they are. otherwise just make them a cash register, which is basically what they have been in their existence. >> let's talk about the way the value systems are. i guess one of the things schools teach is values. wasn't the value at penn state, winning is everything, cover up what you have to do, even if it's horrific crimes, because winning is the only thing that matters. was it fair to say that was the values in the stands, not just in the front office but

management level? >> yeah, definitely. the problem is winning is everything at penn state. every major college in the country. you had s.e.c. media day last week. record crowds. record crowds. this in the middle of the penn state controversy. all these teams want to do is win. and in this case, they turned an eye to a sexual animal who because of their actions, we all know this by now, went on to rape other children. it was protecting that football program at all costs. if it was an english professor involved, he would have been involved in five minutes. anyone else, but anyone else, because it was joe, joe ruled. you know as well as i do, chris, they all took orders from joe, whether he gave them or not. they were terrified of him. all joe i think in the end cared about, yes he could be avuncular, all he cared about was that football team and winning? >> so in the end, the statue goes down as if he were saddam

hussein or p anybody else. >> it reminded me of an american version of saddam hussein. i had to say to myself, this is a football coach. this is not a big political figure. this is not someone who frankly in the end result really had much effect on our society as americans except for the fact we are so sports obsessed. i think it is the new opiate of the masses. >> i want to say a final word. my comment is the working class kids have been going to penn state for years, middle class kids, regular people from the state of pennsylvania have worshipped that university for so many good reasons. they have to live this down now. but they have to understand that whatever is going through them right now, whatever bad news they have to live with, imagine what the victims have to go through to the last day of their lives. think of that and put it in proportion. do they really want to cover up

and be part of that. i hope they say we can take a few defeats, we can't take that on the conscious. thank you, the great author of father's day, great sports reporter for "the daily beast," thanks for coming on. >> thank you, chris. >> he's also the guy who wrote "friday night lights." he's good. republicans are criticizing michele bachmann's outrageous attacks on muslim americans. this is "hardball," a place for politics. that fit almost anywhere so you can take them everywhere. dentyne split to fit. practice safe breath. with less chronic osteoarthritis pain. imagine living your life with less chronic low back pain. imagine you, with less pain. cymbalta can help. cymbalta is fda-approved to manage chronic musculoskeletal pain. one non-narcotic pill a day, every day,

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their bachelor's or master's degree for tomorrow's careers. this is your moment. let nothing stand in your way. devry university, proud to support the education of our u.s. olympic team. welcome back to "hardball." u.s. congresswoman michele bachmann's request for investigation to root out moles

in the department had people saying enough. identified someone as having ties to the muslim brotherhood. writes three family members, her late father, mother, and brother connected to muslim operatives and/or organizations. her position affords her routine access to the secretary and policymaking, she wrote in the letter. now u.s. congressman challenged bachmann on this one. video by think progress.com shows him responding to a woman who voiced support for bachmann and her investigation. >> let me say that i do know houma abedin. i think the comments made about her in that letter, whether or not they were taken out of context were the wrong thing to

do. she could not have gotten the job either as then senator hillary clinton's top adviser or the job in the state department without passing a rather rigorous security clearance. if there was any indication she had any connection at all with the muslim brotherhood, she would not have passed that security clearance. >> a democratic strategist and director of the "huffington post" media group and msnbc political analyst. gentlemen, i don't know what we're living here but i have to say i'm impressed at least piecemeal by these republicans sticking their heads up and saying enough is enough, this mccarthyism. bob strum first. >> they need to be more. she's on the intelligence committee. she has routine access to some of the most important secrets this country have. michele bachmann and intelligence committee are an oxy moron. they need to get her off there.

number two, i'm glad to see this. i wish we saw moron. we need to see more of this. may in cleveland a questioner got up and said to mitt romney that the president of the united states barack obama should be tried for treason. romney didn't rebuke the questioner, didn't say she was wrong. didn't do what john mccain did in 2008 which was to take that mic and say look, he's a loyal american. he's a decent man. i just happen to disagree with him. this is all part of a pattern and michele bachmann is an extreme expression of it that goes back to beginning of this administration. that targeted muslims, perfectly local americans in this country. somehow made them enemies of the country. it has to stop. a lot more has to be done. >> our own poll in "the washington journal" says half the country won't give barack obama credit for being the religion he says he is, christian. 8% say he's a muslim. 40% say they don't know what he

is. let's look at the republicans who have come out not just to defend huma abedin but criticize bachmann. senator john mccain, senator lindsey graham, ed rollins and jim sensenbrener. isn't there a plus forget profiles encourage, isn't there a plus in showing you're a man or woman to have the guts to stand up and say i want your vote, but not this kind of vote. >> well, that would require mitt romney to run an entirely different campaign from the one he's run so far. and he's not going to do it. he is playing to and has from the beginning of the campaign played to the kind of nativist base with the tea party. by nativist i mean people who are in essence afraid of the world. and bob shrum worked for the kennedys. the kennedys stood in the

democratic party for an expanded view of americans' role and america's role in the world. the republican party is going to cripple itself beyond recognition if they don't quit. there's the huma abedin question and then there's a question about the republican party. >> let me fine tune this. you first and then bob. bill clinton won the african-american vote down the line. but he took on sister soldier. he didn't like the lyrics. he was willing to separate himself from extreme talk and still hold on to the constituency. isn't there a way that romney -- i'm not writing his case for him -- but can't he be for the people who are conservative and worried about the islamic threat and still draw the line here. >> i think there is a way but hasn't looked for a way to do it. what i'm saying is if you look

at the republican party and look at the demographics of the country in terms of hispanics, minorities, muslims, and so forth. if you look for the changing demographics and most understand we're living in a global society, multicultural society, the republicans led by mitt romney are going to keep shrinking to the point where they're not going to win an election. >> bob, if you watch any sitcom on anything now, they have south asians on there. that's the face of america. not the republican party today. why don't they admit what's in front of everybody's eyes? this country is getting more divorce. it's the way we're going to be. >> howard is right. the right has become of the fearful, the people who are anxious about the fact america is on its way to becoming a majority non-white nation. in a way, president obama's election symbolized that, a greater tolerance and openness. but there's a group of people in this country who resent and

resist that. michele bachmann speaks for them. she spoke for them during the primaries, didn't do well. howard is right. romney is afraid of offending the right wing base of the republican party. if he ever got elected president, he would be totally beholden to them. he would never offend them because he doesn't want to be schajed for re-election for a primary. if he were president, immigrant bashing, muslim bashing all this would continue to go on inside that party. long-term howard's right. >> it's fear mongering. this is changing over time. the people in this country white, hispanic, black, or south asian are going to be happy here. don't worry. i think it's a great place. i think the future looks good too. bob shrum thank you and howard fineman from washington. when we return, let me finish with what we can do after tragedies like in colorado. you're watching "hardball," the

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let me finish tonight with this crime in colorado. i like you love living in this free country of ours and while i know we will continue to look for clues of how thit happened and how to stop it from happening again, i wonder if some events are not just beyond our control but well beyond. even if we could outlaw the sale of guns, we've outlawed murder for centuries and that hasn't stopped it. we could check on people with

mental and emotional problems, but let's face it again. there are millions of people facing them that live in their own private pain don't always wreak havoc on others. millions of us live in our private worlds. worlds that are good or bad but have little to do with others. we have no right to go around checking in on people with problems. mental, emotional, or social. they don't want us doing that. i'm sure of that one. we push on. we face this tragedy and hope for the best included we are still capable in all our mods earn high-tech capability we can still feel the human heart, the hurt that comes when others we don't know face tragedy. i think we still do. we are still a strong, caring society of people who can hurt when someone 3,000 miles away has their life robbed from them. when someone whoe can tell is just like us feels the loss about someone they care about. and that is the one good thing to come of this.

but it is and do not let this pas like so many other events in the news, far more important than the arguments we have on "hardball." being united is always better than being divided. on this tragedy in aurora, colorado, we are surely together. and that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "politicsnation" with al sharpton starts right now. welcome to "politicsnation." i'm al sharpton live in dallas. tonight's lead, portrait of an accused killer. tonight the suspected gunman in colorado's shooting has made his first courtroom appearance since the horrific tragedy that left 12 people dead and 58 others injured. james holmes had dyed orange/red hair and seemed dazed and glassy eyed. sometimes closing his eyes as the hearing oceeded. he didn't say anything in court and seemed disconnected.

even when the judge talked about the victims. >> for protection order if you'd hand a copy. shall not possess or control a firearm or other weapon. shall not consume alcoholic beverages and controlled substances. and not to commit any new offenses. >> investigators are now looking at his computer and other items found in his apartment trying to piece together who he is and why he allegedly walked into a movie theater and started shooting innocent people. holmes reportedly began struggling at school this past semester doing poorly on exams. police say it was during this time he began buying a huge amount of ammunition online. around that time, some time in may, he began buying guns from local